Smart Pen Productivity

Voiceover Artist 0:00
Are you ready to manage your work and personal world better to live a fulfilling productive life, then you’ve come to the right place productivity cast, the weekly show about all things productivity. Here, your host Ray Sidney-Smith and Augusto Pinaud with Francis Wade and Art Gelwicks.

Raymond Sidney-Smith 0:17
And Welcome back, everybody to productivity cast, the weekly show about all things personal productivity, I’m Ray Sidney Smith.

Augusto Pinaud 0:24
I am Augusto Pinaud.

Francis Wade 0:25
I’m Francis Wade.

Art Gelwicks 0:26
And I’m Art Gelwicks.

Raymond Sidney-Smith 0:27
Welcome, gentlemen, and welcome to our listeners to this episode. What we are going to do today is we are going to talk about the digital pen or that is the smart pen. What I’d like us to do today is to compare and contrast good old fashioned regular pens to the concept of the spectrum of different types of digital pens. And we have everything from pens that actually have ink that write on paper to digital styli that are writing on screens, and we’ll talk about some of the particulars there. I’d like first also to do a comparison of the Major options on the market. And then to close out, I’d like us to have a little bit of discussion on basic tips for jumping into the digital pen or the smart pen market. If you are interested in a smart pen, what would you want to do? What would you want to do first in getting ready for that type of transition. So let’s start off with what the various forms of digital pens are that are out there. So I’m going to cover at least three that I know of and then I’m going to have art explain the fourth since I probably can’t do it as well as he can. So So first and foremost, we have good old fashioned pens, right we have ballpoint pens, we have fountain pens, we have the ability to write pen on paper, they require no battery. And in essence, we can digitize that by using our smartphones today and an application like Evernote or OneNote art What’s the name of the Microsoft scanning application Office Lens Office Lens they You There we go. So we have Office Lens on the Microsoft platform and the ability to then just capture what we have written on paper with pen into our digital devices. Then we take the next step up, and we have other products that are in essence a an ink pen that has a camera or a series of lasers inside of the tip of the pen as well, that captures what you’re writing on either specialized paper or just regular paper. And then that gets sucked into your digital world in some way shape or form. That data can be then turned into live typable text or remain as an as a digital form either as an image or as some other kind of digitized drawing. Then we go to the next step, which is a stylus and then we have the ability to write on screen in essence that requires a digital device where you have a touchscreen that can be written on and or a tablet of some kind that allows you to like the way cardboard is a stylus pad, where you’re writing on a specialized board with specialized surface that then captures into your device very similar to your mouse or keyboard are

Art Gelwicks 3:20
the other two that I would throw into this mix. One is the one that you see all over the place at like staples, and it’s a capacitive end that is basically emulating the end of your finger, you would know it better as just a regular pen that has a squishy black, little almost like an eraser at the end of it. And it’s used to create that connection between a touchscreen and the stylus device. The other one is one that is pretty much exclusive to the Samsung world and that’s the S Pen. The S Pen is an active stylus that works with Samsung devices. Certain Chromebooks like the plus and the Pro, the also the note range of Samsung phones. Those are active devices that don’t have a squishy end, they have a very sharp pen. But what they don’t have is a battery. And they’re deriving interaction from the screen surface itself. So there are two more specialized cases. But I’d say they need to be included into the mix.

Raymond Sidney-Smith 4:16
That’s the spectrum of the various digital pens on the market, or at least digitizing your ink into a device. And so let’s get into some of the pros and cons of what is actually on the market. And I’d like to start from one end to the other, which is talking specifically about the pens themselves, and what we know about those particular devices. So I’ve been a Livescribe smart pen reducer for quite some time. And so Livescribe currently has the Livescribe three and the eight year now. And so the three of those models are the kind of class of similar pens that have in essence a camera that is embedded next to the ink cartridge. And as you as you write it is an essence capturing on on page. Now it requires special paper. So you have to have their notebooks or you need to have the ability to print their their paper, the so the format onto paper. So you can you can in essence like pairing with a levenger circa notebook or the staples Arc System, you can in essence, manifest your own planner, you know and notebook but you have to print that specialized paper in order for the camera to be able to know where you’re writing and on what pages you’re writing because it actually tracks what page you’re on. And that helps it to organize the documents in your system. The the great part about the I think the Livescribe three is that it allows you to write in real time into lifetime typable text on your mobile device. So to kind of explain it, as you’re writing in your notebook, you’re putting pen to paper, and you’re just happily writing along. Now the Livescribe three can capture audio at the same time. And when you click on any one of those points on the page, the physical page, you can jump back to that audio moment, you can also put a star like literally just draw a star on the page and then tap on it, and will actually create a, a bookmark to that point in time. And those are specialized little moments to snap you back to that particular moment in your notes, as well as in the audio. While you’re writing in the with the Livescribe. Three though, if you look on your mobile tablet as it’s open, it’s recording the audio. And if you want it to you can turn that off, and so it can be recording the audio but at the same time, you will see the text being captured. Well at any moment in time. You can just swipe your finger across that text and it turns it into live typable text, you know, like ASCII characters, which is a really, really powerful feature. So, that’s the Livescribe three I have not played with the ager but it’s a it’s, you know, the, it’s a cheaper version. So it’s about half the price of the Livescribe three, which I’m very curious about playing with it, it’s it’s got a smaller amount of memory. It’s a little bit smaller in size. And I’m it’s it’s lighter. I’m very curious to see what this pen is all about. But it is the it is their latest duration and I’m presuming their movement into that space. It also auto synchronizes with Evernote OneNote, Google Drive and the Adobe cc cloud platform. We have many, many other pens in the market. We have the we have the Neo smart pen, the end too. We have the moleskin pen plus ellipse and I will put that links to these in the show notes so folks can just at least see them.

Art Gelwicks 8:03
I played with the light of scribe when it first came out years ago. And the concept, I mean, seems solid enough, but all it’s doing is in my book, at least all it’s doing is helping the digitization part of the process, you still have a paper notebook, you’re capturing information on the paper notebook, you have to deal with that at some way sometime, unless you’re using just like legal pads and throwing the pages out. So while I, I think it helps with the digital transcription part. I don’t know I’m I’m beginning to wonder if we haven’t moved if the technology hasn’t moved to the point where it really is almost unnecessary, because there’s so many other ways you can do it using apps or using scanning applications.

Raymond Sidney-Smith 8:47
Well, the thing that the Livescribe does that I think is is key here is that it is tracking in real time against your audio file. So again, this is this is about the this is not necessarily About the ink on paper but matching, it’s like the holy grail for me right? I want to be able to capture real time handwritten text, the audio in the in the meeting or in the in the lecture that I’m listening to, along with the ability to turn that into live typable text it captures all three layers for me in a way that no other platform yet does. Now, there is a there is a product called the Audio Notetaker by Sona sent, and I’ll put a link to this in the show notes as well. And this is not a digital pen. This is just a piece of software that allows you to capture, say that a professor, or a presenter at a conference gives you their PowerPoint slide deck or PDF slide deck. You can actually throw that into sono sent it will split apart the entire PDF. And as you’re listening to the seminar and taking notes that is typing notes into the system, it’s capturing the audio and clips, and you’re able to highlight particular clips and tag them. And so it in essence colors, the various clips. And you can each of those audio clips now is fungible. So you can, you can filter them, you can sort them, you can merge a file of only the only a specific context. So say you wanted five clips from the, from the entire presentation where those were the most important items that were spoken, you can filter to that and then generate an audio file of just those items. It’s a very, very powerful tool. And that’s the only thing missing from the Livescribe that I would really love to see it be able to do is to take that audio file and take the text and somehow filter and sort it in a way that was more manipulable. But that being the case, I think, I think there’s just something very, very valuable in a world of Information overload for us to be able to identify the core pieces of something that happens in a real time environment, and then boil it down. And, you know, condense it to the most important things for us to be able to capture into our systems into our reference systems, and to have and then also identifying action. So for example, if you’re in a lecture, you know, at a at a workshop, you can identify different items as key tasks. And so it with the Livescribe pen, you know, you just scratch a little star at that point, tap it, and then it bookmarks it and now you can go back to your notes. And in digital in the digital environment, now you have a key option to just click on that and either hear or see your notes that are actions. So you have this really powerful productivity enabler by virtue of the digital. You know, the hybrid, the digital paper connection. Let’s move on. Then to some of the other types of styli that we have on the market. So we have the Apple Pencil. We have Google’s pixel book pen, we have the adonit stylus. Talk to me about the various types of stylus options that are on the market and Agusta Do you want to kind of start us off with the Apple Pencil and what the virtues are of something like that.

Augusto Pinaud 12:24
I want to make a comment on what you were saying was critical on making the star I obviously a star on pen and paper and because of what I do for a living taking notes has always been an issue because I take a lot of them and before they digitize, they were able to easy to digitize and especially to be able to be searchable was always a pain. So I used to have a Levenger notebook that I really liked. But searching into those were a massive pain and I try every pen and every digital digital pen that you can think and the best I was able to ever find was, especially pre iPhone was using learning graffiti on the Palm Pilot, I can joke that I was fostering graffiti than handwriting. What I learned at some point was the Cornell Method of take notes where you make a line. And then if you’re using that analog system for taking notes, you can make those important highlight things to the left in a special section. So they’re really, really easy to scan. And I wanted to add that because regardless if you’re using digital or not digital and you’re not familiar with that, it is a really great method for being able to put actions or things that are relevant or key information that needs to be and then being able to scan them in really second. So that said, let’s jump into the Apple Pencil when because of how bad the failure was, and I tried to get on it and I try all those on I never find one that I could really do handwriting that the OCR was decent enough that he would get to the point that was useful for me. So when the Apple Pencil came out, I honestly didn’t thought much about it. Shame on me I know. But when I got my 12.9 inches, I got the Apple Pencil to play I and it was really not with the idea of solve My handwriting and notes problem it was more to play than anything else. And what I have found is not only that OCR is incredible, but the notes on the handwriting is as good as it is in paper. And from there I went and even got a smaller I like small, small paper. So the I got a 9.7 Pro so I could do take notes in that. And now I have an iPad Mini to do that since Apple was kind enough to release it, but what I found Found is really pen wise. Okay the most or the best I have found is that Apple Pencil I, I tried the Adonis I at some point even represent Adonis a as a brand in in Latino America. And I was lucky enough to try all of them. I mean from the Evernote, they use some point had an Evernote one that synchronized record was Evernote, and I was never able to make notes that I could, that they were useful that will replace my Levenger and that’s exactly what the Apple Pencil had accomplished for me is I don’t have any more paper in my life and everything gets done in good notes and it’s searchable, it’s able it’s I can do everything from there. And even on my poor handwriting, that Apple hardware and software have the ability to OCR for me to be able to do good searches.

Raymond Sidney-Smith 16:00
The other side of this is the Google Pixel book pen. And those of you who are using the pixel book line have Chromebook, or Chrome OS devices, the Google Pixel book pen is actually really amazing. It gives, I feel like the same level of feel of being able to write on screen with high detail. And, you know, it’s very, very fine detail to being able to do say, like, light, you know, shading to hard presses on the screen, it really gives you a fine level of control over the writing experience on screen, at least if you’re on the Android side.

Art Gelwicks 16:43
Yeah, I’m just going to jump in here because I realized as we were talking through this that we did leave out an entire group which is the Microsoft Surface line of devices, with their stylus and a lot of the windows 10 machines that have stylists available and pens available. But this is really helping us breakdown. There’s two main classes of these devices. There’s digital devices that work on paper and digital devices that are for digital platforms. And if we if we separate that way, you have to make that first choice. Do I want to use paper or not. And if you want to use paper, then an entire half of this conversation doesn’t apply, because a lot of these things don’t work. If you don’t want to use paper, well, same thing applies, just flip it over. So that’s the first question we have to start with.

Raymond Sidney-Smith 17:32
There’s actually a whole class of tablets that have been created purposefully for writing. So we have we have things like the remarkable tablet, which is a writing device first. So it’s supposed to be this amazing writing experience. I have not yet gotten my hands on one, but I hope to soon and the idea behind the remarkable tablet is that it’s supposed to create an experience. That is akin to writing on paper. And so there’s there’s the remarkable tablet. There’s also one called, I don’t know how to pronounce it is that I skin or skin. But, but the company creates a digital tablet called the slate. And the idea behind the slate is again, to give mostly creative professionals the ability to create as though they were writing on paper. And so just like there was a whole class of these types of bridging the digital paper divide, and being able to navigate that, from my perspective, I care about the productive components here, which are what enables you to actually make forward movement on the things that you’re capturing. So whether that be your app, you’re in a real time event or you’re brainstorming or an idea comes to mind and you want to sketch it Or you want to take notes on that particular thing? How do you turn that into something that is actually useful for you? And I’m curious from, from you, Francis, what, as as a non digital pen user, and you know, mostly with your hands on a keyboard, I’m presuming most of your day. What do you see as the the major problems that make you not want to use a digital pen or a digital device that bridges that gap for you? Because it sounds to me from our conversations that you primarily capture in digital, and there’s not a lot of paper in your world,

Francis Wade 19:41
right, right. So I used to use paper, and then started using my smartphone, but five years ago, and the primary reason was that I just got tired of carrying around having to carry around a piece of paper and a pen psycap straight into straight into Google, keep normally. Usually just textual knowing again, maybe sound or video or something. But the primary reason I haven’t tried I haven’t even tried a live scribe or any of the others is, as you know, I live in Jamaica and everything fancy and everything that gets broken is several weeks away from either being acquired or being fixed, it would take me weeks to get a live scribe and if anything ever went wrong with it, it would take me weeks to get it repaired. And the timeframe involved the time lag just makes it infeasible by it’s there is no quick turnaround time to move things in and out. That’s the one primary reason so I tend towards using replaceable technologies that are quick, easy to pick up. If anything goes wrong, I can immediately replace them. I’m not even good at keeping the same pen from day to day, let alone the same fancy expensive pain. today. I’m also cheeps While I wouldn’t use one, but I think those are the primary reasons I love the idea that it captures that they can do capture. And new technology might get to the point where it’s, it’s ubiquitous and inexpensive and available enough for me to use. I would I would probably migrate to something that if it were available, but if not, if it required carrying around people. I think it’ll always be faster to use my smartphone.

Augusto Pinaud 21:29
So it’s interesting and I understand understand what you’re saying there is a device called the boogie board and the boogie board basically, it’s equivalent to one page, okay. And you can do handwriting nice and it’s pretty affordable. I mean, it is in the range of the 30 to $50 depending on the model you got so, so it is not on the expensive side, but it gives you a first experience of all the digital basically, it’s a tablet, but the only thing it does is data And then as soon as you are done you push a button and then it will send it to, to your to your phone as a backup a screenshot of the image and but for people I have recommend that to a couple of people that want to experience this but don’t want to necessarily carry you know an iPad or more expensive device but really wants to not have that paper and have the ability of backup and all those things.

Raymond Sidney-Smith 22:26
I remember the first boogie board a colleague in my office got one and it was the most interesting little thing because it’s it’s still is the same as I as I recall it. You know you have you you wrote it was a dark screen and as you wrote it was light. It was a lighter colors like you know, dark gray. And then when you wrote on it, it was a light gray or you know, absence of that, that background. And so it’s almost like a chalkboard if you want to think about it that way. But the but once you erased it, it was gone. There was no there was no synchronization and The first edition it was just, you know, write on the board, and then got rid of it. And I ended up liking the boogie board because I would get on the phone with dozens and dozens of people every day in a very fast paced work environment. And it allowed me to just take quick notes. But I didn’t really need to keep track of those handwritten notes, I just needed to like, take down a number and call somebody. And then once I did that, I didn’t meet that number anymore. So it was just one of those things where it allowed me to capture those really very quick notes and then move on. So I really liked the boogie board. So yes, I say I say for those who need a very, you know, quick and dirty, very inexpensive entry into the market. That’s a great, that’s a great suggestion. So moving right along, let’s talk about the art use kind of started the conversation. And I want to I want to swing back to this as our as our as we make our way into our final segment of the of the of the podcast, which is to talk about what someone Who might be looking to use a smart pen? For the most of us? How do we choose the right smart pen? How do we how do we decide on which version of the categories we’ve kind of been talking about as being the right one for us? How do we make that decision?

Art Gelwicks 24:19
The first thing is you have to define what problem are you trying to solve? or What problem do you perceive you have that you think a digital pen, and I’m going to use that as kind of a broad name term to fit all these classes is going to resolve for you. So if your challenge is, you want a more efficient way to take the handwritten notes that you take and be able to store and recall them. Fine, then that’s your use case criteria. If you want an easier way to actually capture things without having to carry a paper notebook around. That becomes your use case. You’ve got to define that first. Once you define that you can start eliminating, so Have these possibilities before you start working with one, the mistake that a lot of people make, especially in this kind of tech is they just take the one that is getting the best reviews or the most notoriety and say, Okay, I’m going to apply that and see how that works for me, well, there’s no concept that that is going to be a match the first time it’s your odds are actually poor, that that will be a match the first time because you haven’t defined your needs. So if you are somebody who likes the feel of pen on paper, and we always talk about this with productivity, you have to be comfortable with something and use something for it to be productive for you. Therefore, if you like pen on paper, a digital pen is a not up not a bad idea for you if you want to skip a step, such as using your phone and an app to capture digital images, or if you want to have automatic translation from handwritten into text. So that’s something that you can certainly go down that path. If it’s the process of handwriting that you want to stick with, or the flexibility of something that’s handwritten, I do a lot of diagramming and conceptual modeling in my day to day work. And that’s typically done on a whiteboard. Well, I don’t always have a whiteboard with me, I can’t fold one up and stick it in my pocket. But what I can do is I can use a digital stylus on my note eight or on my Chromebook with the right app to create a whiteboard wherever I need to be. Could I do that with a pen and paper and notebook? Absolutely. That is the lowest common denominator solution. But if I want to be able to leverage other parts of my system, such as being able to store those images, recall them, manipulate them, and depending on the app, possibly turn them into something else. Then I start to look at the digital technology that would allow me to get to that point, but you have to start From that common denominator, everything we’re talking about, can be done on pen and paper. It’s just when you decide to do something that can’t, now that you have to start looking at some of these other options.

Raymond Sidney-Smith 27:11
So in my world, I tend to take a step back and do an assessment of where I am capturing. And akin to kind of what you’re talking about here are the notion of being in an environment where I feel like something is not working right is probably a good moment for me to step back and think about what I can do to make that environment naturally better. By naturally, I mean, socially better. So in many environments, it’s not appropriate for me to have a digital device out. And it’s just the nature of my work and the environments in which I work. For example, I was in a client I was on client site last week, and I could not have Any technology on me like not nothing with a circuit, you know, nothing with an electronics board in it. And so just that short meeting meant that I needed to give up my phone, you know, and, and, and everything else. And so I couldn’t bring those things in. So of course, that led to me bringing my normal fountain pen and my little moleskin notebook to be able to take notes and to capture that information. And I knew that once I left, I was going to then capture that using the Evernote camera, and that would be digitized that way. But the the next step up then is in any given meeting, I’m able to bring my technology with me. And at the same time though, the level of comfort people have with me having saved my tablet out and writing digitally on screen can be a little bit justice novelty can be a little bit off putting and so I think Try to make people as comfortable as possible in my space. And so I don’t want to distract them from the topic and the substance of the meeting. And so that is something that you need to keep in mind is who is in the room with you, whether that be digitally or in person? And is that going to distract from the substance of the environment and and then decide on what other technology can be facilitative and the the there’s a lot of really great technology now there’s, there’s like a, there are a couple of tools that allow you to like put a conference call into the system and the system will naturally listen for action items and record the conference and take notes and send meeting minutes all using artificial intelligence. And that’s all really well and wonderful. But if people are creeped out by it, they’re going to be choked up and they’re not going to say what they really feel and they’re not going to be able to express themselves. So just be mindful of Of how much technology you force in front of people who may not be as tech minded as you are.

Art Gelwicks 30:05
If you’re going to start, and you’re not sure how to get into this, I’m going to recommend start with an app. Start with digitizing. Stick with a regular pen stick with paper, start with the digitizing apps, something like an Office Lens or that sorter or like being able to shoot directly in Evernote, just to see what the experience is on the back end once the handwritten content is in the digital device, because that’s ultimately where all this stuff has to wind up for it to be of any use, then you start to figure out okay, will I use it here? Can I use it here? I mean, we have to remember some basic things. For example, none of this in the for the most part is searchable. If you write something handwritten unless it’s translated into text, you can’t do keyword search, similar to what you would do with typed content. So you have to think about how’s this going to work out Am I going to recall it and what’s the advantage of it, the reason why I recommend going with the apps is because they’re actually the lowest cost of entry to do this, I mean, you can get an app for a couple dollars if you want. If you find this is really working, then take that next step into another device. But I would say start easy because this is one of those areas that you can find is really useful. But you can also find it’s very frustrating and you wind up going down multiple paths trying to get to an end result that’s going to work for you.

Augusto Pinaud 31:31
You know, that’s a that’s a great advice. The other the other advice I tell people is look at devices like the boogie board, okay, you can connect it to your current smartphone that you use, you can save the information that way you can search that way, but it will give you the full experience. You now have half a full xR eight 8.5 by 11 page if you like that size even have a smaller one. So that way you can go and take the notes and explore You know, that flexibility in the page and they have been getting, you know, pretty advanced from that first version you were mentioning right? But it’s a cheap way to play is a cheap way to test it and and then you know go from it and then from there decide if you want to, to implement you know, something more sophisticated.

Raymond Sidney-Smith 32:23
So, from from my perspective, I also, I also like to look at the various ways in which you need to turn your captured items into action and reference. So, for example, like art said, you know, if you are writing on paper and capturing just an image, the application you use, whether or not it has optical character recognition, meaning being able to turn handwritten text into either an indexed set of keywords for you to search or actually turning it into live typable text is a is a feature that you need to know about. Whether or not you need so for example, that’s something that I want. I’m, I’m, I’m geeky, that way I want all of I want all the things. Whereas other people may not really care, you know, you might want to be able to just reference the page be able to read through those notes and be able to have some kind of signifiers that let you know what things are and you can read the the the text by itself and be comfortable with that. For me, I want to be able to manipulate that text in many different ways and to be able to both pull the captured items that need to be clarified into projects and actions. And then and then sourcing the items that are reference to what I call knowledge units. In essence, I want to be able to pull away the the stuff that is the wheat from the chaff, I want to pull the good nuggets and put those with the other things that are like them. So in Evernote, for example, I have a note that I can Consider a knowledge unit for any topic that I find to be important of interest to me. So when I find something important about that, I want to add it to that note. So I need the I need the resident reference item, the little golden nugget in those notes to be able to be extracted and placed into that note, now, very easily, I could screen capture the snippet from the image of the text, I could do all kinds of things that work around the issue, but most most comfortable for me is the ability to take that text and from a live perspective, copy and paste the text into that knowledge unit so that it’s all together. So it’s unitized. And so just know what your know what your needs are, think through the 360 degree cycles, so to speak of the experience so that you know how it’s going to be most productive for you. And I think that really helps you along the way. But I I snapped back then also To Art’s warning slash suggestion to start simple, because you can very easily go down the rabbit hole trying to make everything perfect. And for me, it’s taken a number of years coming to this point, and lots of trips and stumbles with the technological components to make it all work and integrating it with different software. It’s it’s a lot of work. So. So start simple and see if those gains are enough, before you try and making it way more than you need it to increment up is is I think, really, really great advice.

Art Gelwicks 35:37
Yeah, I’ve got an app I’m going to recommend that works on both Android and iOS. I know it’s available on both that if you want to start trying in this space, it’s a good starting place. It’s a thing called Nebo. It’s used to be my script. And basically it’s a digital inking program allows you to create notebooks on your device. It does require you To use some sort of a stylus tool, but it would be any stylus tool that would work with either an iPad or you know, a touchscreen Chromebook. What it allows you to do is capture capture your digital link. And if you decide to just by tapping, you can have it do handwriting recognition, to translate your text or your handwritten text into actual text. It will do entire pages at one shot. And then you can export that out to a text file to a Word file or HTML. It allows you to drop in images, it allows you to drop in drawings and diagrams that you can hand draw. I have found out of all the different apps that I’ve played with for this I found Nebo is the most versatile when it comes to this combination of analog capture and digital access. So I would throw that as a recommendation anybody if you want to try and get a little bit further into the deep end without getting totally into the deep end, that may be a good option for you, too. Try

Raymond Sidney-Smith 37:00
Did you also want to mention squid?

Art Gelwicks 37:02
squid is one of those apps, it is a great digital inking app. It’s very smooth. You can download it for iOS. And for Android, the only thing about squid is it doesn’t have the handwriting translation, it doesn’t do the switchover into text, which I have found is the strength of Nebo. Being able to do that piece of it, I have squared, I still use squid quite a bit. It’s very flexible if you’re going to stay in the digital space. But if you want to cross that bridge, then I would say look at niebo as well.

Raymond Sidney-Smith 37:34
Well, thank you, gentlemen, for this conversation. This has been a lot of fun talking about smart pens, happens to be a little bit of a fun little passion of mine is playing with smart pens. It’s an expensive hobby, but I really like it. So for our listeners, if you have a question or comment about this cast or something that we discussed, and you’re listening from anywhere other than the podcast website, you’re in your podcast app of choice, we invite invite you to jump over to productivity cast dotnet. And then at the bottom of the page, we have a comment field, you can leave comments questions, and one of us will be more than happy to respond. Also there on productivity cast. net, you’ll find our show notes, a transcript of the podcast, you’ll find links to anything that we discussed. And you’ll also see how to find us if you need to find us for some reason. And you can also learn how to follow the podcast in your favorite podcast app. If you happen to not be a a subscriber or listener to the podcast. Feel free to join us over in one of the many free podcast apps that are out there. If you have another question about personal productivity, something that you’d like us to tackle here on ProductivityCast Feel free to visit ProductivityCast dotnet forward slash contact, you can fill out the form on the page or you can record a voice based message and that will be sent to us and we’ll be able to listen to it and maybe answer it here on the show. Thank you to Augusto Francis and art for joining me You’re on this cast. And that brings us to the close of this episode of ProductivityCast, the weekly show about all things, personal productivity, take care, and here’s to productive life, everybody.

Voiceover Artist
And that’s it for this ProductivityCast, the weekly show about all things productivity, with your hosts, Ray Sidney-Smith and Augusto Pinaud with Francis Wade and Art Gelwicks.